Rochville University and the Board of Online Universities Accreditation

A recent post on Dave's ESL Cafe brought up the issue of Rochville University and the Board of Online Universities Accreditation. An anonymous comment claimed that Rochville is a legitimate provider of on-line education. After an examination of information available on the Internet, I believe this is not true and that Rochville University should be avoided by those looking for legitimate education.

Rochville's website does not provide any contact information. There is no phone number or address for a business office anywhere to be found on the site. Only a fax number can be found on the Home Page. Contrast this with one of the top providers of legitimate on-line education, the University of Phoenix (UOP); the phone number of their business office can be found on the Home Page and the Contact Page contains all the information you'll need to walk in off the street and see the school.

Their webpage contains no meaningful information about the courses they offer. There is no information about course descriptions, program requirements, or who does their teaching.

Rochville University claims accreditation from the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA) and Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA). Neither of these organizations appear meaningful. Almost all their reported members are the same. In fact, the layout for their webpages appear to be so similar that I wonder if they are not the same organization with 2 different names.

There are many legitimate organizations that deal with on-line education. The Sloan Consortium has as its members many mainstream universities, as well as commercial groups, that promote on-line education. On its website it states

The purpose of the Sloan Consortium (Sloan-C) is to help learning organizations continually improve the quality, scale, and breadth of their online programs according to their own distinctive missions, so that education will become a part of everyday life, accessible and affordable for anyone, anywhere, at any time, in a wide variety of disciplines.

The University of Phoenix is accredited by Higher Learning Commission (HLC) and is a member of the North Central Association (NCA).

In a previous post about St. Clements University, I stated that St. Clements appears more like a Third World university than the kind of school that most of my readers would have attended. Rochville University does not appear to have even this standard. Let me paraphrase something I said in a posting on the World Association of Universities and Colleges (WAUC),

It would appear that Rochville University is not a learning institution in the sense that we understand it. Rather, it is a commercial business involved in the marketing of educational products. It is difficult to say what value, if any, their 'education' provides.

I can not speak for others, but I would not hire someone based on educational attainment at Rochville University. As much as Rochville University is accredited by the Board of Online Universities Accreditation and Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA), it is meaningless.

Comments

[BioRad]

I am sorry you feel that I ramble and am illogical. I thought I should let you know that I have published a Biomedical and Radiology related manuscript as well as 3 Biomedical Technology related articles in a widely circulated Biomedical Journal. I have been in the Biomedical and Radiology industry for 10 years and have designed numerous devices that you unknowingly may have been treated on when you stayed at a hospital and or medical center. Additionally, I am one of only 50 people credentialed in my particular field and have worked with the FDA and the FCC (Which, I both am licensed by and received the highest grade in the country on their exam). Just to tell you about myself, I am an ordained minister, I own three houses two of which I rent out, and I am a breeder of English Bulldogs. I am not challenging you or your readers, I just believe that US accredited or not it is a Degree and many employers will and are accepting it. If you really research, then you will see that there are many very successful professionals in government and other industries that already had proved that they were competent individuals and just got the R.U. Degree to increase their marketability and prestige. I am sorry you cannot relate, but wish you the best in your personal endeavors…

Take care,

BioRad

[Biorad]

Sorry, I just noticed two obvious typos 1. “Sorry” was misspelled and 2. There should have been an “and” instead of a “,” after FDA.

[MrTime]

All what you have said is a flow of golden words. Hats are off to you! Thanks for blazing the trail for many who might be ready to start their journey in the dark and gloomy seas of Rochville University.

Keep this great ball rolling

With a standing ovation for you

MrTime

[Scott Sommers]

Seriously, I wouldn't worry very much about typos. In fact, if you spot typos and want them changed, just send me an e-mail, and I'll edit the original post.

A degree from a school like Rochville makes no sense to me. You might as well make up your own school and just claim you have a doctorate. No one is going to accept their degree as legitimate except in error, so why even bother with what is fundamentally a charade? The fact that you post all of this anonymously indicates that there's someone you don't want knowing about your Rochville degree. Could this be because you (and others) would loose all that prestige and perhaps even your job if anyone knew what kind of school it really was?

And this is the core of the problem. For all I know, you are a 17-year-old high school dropout. You have made some very strong claims about your level of qualification and its relationship to your association with Rochville University, yet there is no way I can verify any of this.

Help me out with this. Tell me who you are. Of course, I'd prefer if you did this publicly, but if you feel uncomfortable with this idea let me know and I assure I will keep your identity confidential.

[BioRad (Tim Hooks)]

If you insist,

My personal info is as follows:

Tim Hooks CRES, CBET (Born 12/03/1975)

Currently, I am Director of the Biomedical Engineering Department for a Hospital here in Nevada, and I have worked all over the country in numerous Hospitals including George Washington University Hospital in Washington, D.C. I was recently (3-4 months ago) offered a position at Duke University to work in their Biomedical Engineering Department (You can choose to believe me or not) but I turned it down to be Director of my own department. I have designed the Biomedical Engineering Department at the Hospital I am currently at, from the ground up(Things are a little slow; that is why I have time to write you).

Please feel free to read some of my articles published at www.24x7mag.com please select past issues from the left column, select either the December 2003, April 2004, or May 2004 issue, and double click on the articles written by Tim Hooks, CRES, CBET(enjoy!). Don’t worry, I was chosen for the articles, my past positions, and my current position because of my complete background. Which includes having worked for Spacelabs Medical (I can fax you a copy of my Spacelabs training Cert. if you like) the first company to monitor both astronauts in outer space and people on earth in the healthcare environment.

I am currently a member of the following organizations:

Association for the Advancement of Medical Instrumentation
California Medical Instrumentation Association
North Texas Biomedical Association
New England Society for Clinical Engineering
(You can contact them if you desire…)

I am also registered with the FDA’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health

In the past, I did design work on Nellcor and Ohmeda Pulse Oximeter probes, HP and Corometrics Fetal monitoring probes, Alcon and Storz Phaco Surgical hand pieces (I did much to develop many of the internal QA and design procedures), Respirators for Puritan Bennett, Infusion Pumps for Baxter, and other manufactures and devices too numerous to list. I hope I am not boring you yet?

I regularly do public speaking, which includes teaching and instructing Doctors, Nurses, Radiology Technologists, and numerous other healthcare professionals in the proper use of Biomedical, Radiology, and Laboratory Devices. If you want my complete resume, I can send you it to you also.

Please try not to be too hard on people who choose to get recognition for years of hard work or lack there of, because if you would only visit this web site www.jsilny.com you will see that many well-known and authoritative government agencies accept work experience as equivalent to a degree. Specifically, reference the downloadable form entitled “Work Experience Application Form” and check the requirements for obtaining a US equivalent degree based on work experience. Further research on a lawyers web site (which I have to locate again) reveals that the evaluators for US equivalencies regard 3 years of work experience as equal to one year of College/University level study.

Also, ITT Technical School offers numerous unaccredited Degrees (which are advertised on TV) right here in the US. I have worked with some of their graduates and they boast of having been given open book exams in their upper division undergrad classes.

Lastly, I forgot to mention that I have been listed in Who's Who in America 2003 and Who's Who in the World 2003.

Kindest Regards,

BioRad

[BioRad (Tim Hooks)]

I almost forgot,

My Federal Communication Commission (FCC) number is PG-GB-049496 issued 09/04/98 (The Elkins Institute graded my exam, 1 wrong answer; I can fax you a copy of this also). My other FCC number is KF6RVF; it is not commercial. Questions www.fcc.gov

My Association for the Advancement for Medical Instrumentation (AAMI) number is 380698. Questions www.aami.org

If you are still in doubt as to my credibility, the Hospital that I both work at and designed the Biomedical Engineering Department for is:

Mesa View Regional Hospital
1299 Bertha Howe Ln.
Mesquite, NV 89027

www.mesaviewhospital.com

[Scott Sommers]

Tim, you appear a little confused about what I'm talking about in my post. My post is not concerned with your qualifications or with the legitimacy of awarding degrees based on workplace achievement. It is concerned only with the quality of Rochville University.

It may be, as you state, that there is a legitimate role for the evaluation of work experience in the granting of degrees. It will take a lot more work, however, to convince me that Rochville University is a legitimate source of that judgment. Honestly, they have no address. Compare the information they provide on their website with the site your provided, www.jsilny.com. If Rochville is a legitimate education organization, they better fix their website because it really looks like the kind of place where people send money and they send diplomas.

All this raises a serious question; with your qualifications, why would you want what a place like Rochville sells? In your initial posting, you talked about "marketability and prestige". Certainly, an unaccredited degree is not that marketable. As much as it does result in promotion, this is in error. I can not imagine any company knowing promoting someone with the kind of certification that Rochville seems to sell. And certainly that would be even more true of public sector employers. After all, it's unaccredited.

And as for status, the same things I said for employers is probably even more true for one's colleagues. In my home town, there's a school district superintendent who has a doctorate that was granted based on his 'work experience'. This is widely known in the district and the things that teachers and staff say about his degree are nothing short of cruel. This is especially unfortunate since he had an established record of excellence as a superintendent even before he received this doctorate.

Your qualifications do raise some more questions, though. I can't help wondering how it was that a biomedical engineer came across my posts on Dave's ESL Cafe. In fact, it was only last Sunday, two days before your posting, that an anonymous post from 'Braden' was lauding Rochville. Honestly, I have to wonder if there's some connection.

One last point; I was never really concerned with your qualifications. Rather, I was bothered by the fact that you were posting anonymously. Perhaps you're not very experienced on the internet, but posting anonymously raises a flag and this is all the more true on Dave's.

[BioRad (Tim Hooks)]

I came across you conversation while doing a google search for “Rochville University” at www.google.com; Dave’s website posting was the 3rd hit.

As to how I came across your on line conversation shortly after another anonymous posting, I assure you, it was purely coincidental.

If you are interested in more discussion regarding Rochville University please visit http://www.faqs.org/qa/qa-13201.html (also a google hit)

-Tim

[Ian]

I know this is not directly related to the thread but it still has some relevance to the gist of it, the removal of the traditional academic environment, and the rise of e-learning and online programmes:

http://education.guardian.co.uk/elearning/story/0,10577,1291416,00.html

[John Cameron]

Any regular reader of Dave's ESL Cafe' and scottsommers.blogs.com will understand that the sole goal of these excellent sites is to provide up-tp-date scholarly and social analysis of ESL, ESL education and post secondary opportunites for ESL educated students the world over. I would like to thank Scott for bringing to my attention the sad state of internet university standards. It does appear that Rochville "U" merely sells degrees, much in the same manner as what the FBI would class as a "Diploma Mill". The above correspondent may well be as professionally experienced as he claims, though I would suggest from the information provided by Rochville itself that electricians trained in world class technical schools such as BCIT and Singapore are much better educated and qualified than the correspondent cited above, claims to a university degree or not.

[Tim Hooks]

In this, my last and final post for readers of this log, “I neither condone nor defend Rochville University and its program in any way”, but rather believe that it is an unaccredited Degree despite it’s qualifications for attainment; I believe you can never prove otherwise.

There are many Government agencies, Commercial corporations, and Religious groups that accept unaccredited degrees. One particular unaccredited school is ITT Technical Institute; visit their website www.itt-tech.edu I am sure you will be impressed with what you see and read. Sadly, I assure you, it is unaccredited and some of the highest positions in the technology related sectors in the United States of America are held by graduates of such institutions.

Although I did not mention it except in my initial posting on Dave’s, I do hold two accredited Degrees one in Electronics (Science) and one in Liberal Studies (Art) from Fullerton State College in Fullerton, California USA; I was on the Presidents Honor Roll.

Kindest regards…

Tim Hooks

[Scott Sommers]

While I appreciate Tim's contribution to this discussion, it only goes to highlight the real confusion. Rochville is NOT an unaccredited degree. Rochville University is accredited by both the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA) and the Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA). These are both commercial organziations that have no legitimacy in the academic world. And as I asked the Academic Director of another similar 'university', if you have a real school, why would need the recoginition of an organization like this?

[Tim Hooks]

I realize I said I was not going to post anymore on the weblog, however I felt it was necessary to clarify my self. Rochville University is unaccredited by an accreditation body located here in the United States; which is generally what persons living in the United States are referring to when they say “accredited or unaccredited”. For those of you who are not from the USA and were reading this, I sincerely apologize for any misunderstanding.

Thank you Scott for allowing me to post my views on this educational topic.

Very best regards,

Tim Hooks

[Scott Sommers]

Tim, I am glad to have you post opposing opinions on my blog. I have never censored posts because they disagree with how I feel. That would violate the whole spririt of the Internet project.

On the other hand, I can't agree with your definition of the problem with the term "accreditation". The problem with the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA) and the Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA) is not that they are not American accreditation bodies. In fact, since their websites list absolutley no contact information except American-based e-mail addresses, I have to assume that thay are an American-based organization, as are all their members. The problem with the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA) and the Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA) is that their accreditation is meaningless. Like the diplomas I am criticizing, their certfication can be bought.

[Laura]

OK I get it about Rocheville U. but does anybody know where I can get a legit degree using life experience? I have worked in the Social Work field for nine years. I am currently a Program Coordinator for the Mental Health Association. I do not have a degree although I am doing pretty well without one. I have written and received many grants and wrote programs from the ground up that is very successful. How do I make this experience count for more than just my paycheck? I am sure I could be making between $5000.00 to 10 grand more a year if I had the LSW B.S…. initials after my name. I am considering putting MOM GED
after my name (only for a joke I really do have a “accredited high school diploma”

Thanks for any advice.
Laura

[Ian]

The entire subject of accredited universities is a hugely significant debate, particularly in that it raises the question as to who in effect is validating students' degrees. Ultimately it is not university boards, government appointed committees or readers of weblogs but those in the workplace and leaders of industry. In France for example, the government has picked up on this fact and rightly gives validation to people's skilled work experiences to such an extent that it gives a recognised qualification (a diploma - a degree equivalent). Of course there may be huge scpeticism based on the fact that readers of this site have been full-time educated at accredited universities and thus why should someone who has not been to a university get such equal treatment. Well, why not? Too many times people with an interest in education simply focus on the university situation which makes their perspective completely closed to what happens in the work place and thus the experiences of professional work. If somewhere like Online University X gives degrees which are workplace viable where is the problem? Ultimately the judge of that university is not you or I but those who employ people. Furthermore the whole university and work place relationship over the last 25 years, maybe even last 10 years, has shifted so the traditional notion of classroom teaching is best is falling by the wayside - whether people like it or not distance learning and online education is growing and is the future. In addition the nature of industry is radically changing and education needs to adapt itself to this change otherwise industrial leaders will look to more relevant outlets, such as professional experience, as a means to pick suitably qualified workers. Hence the question asked response by one of this weblog's readers about where she can get his life experiences validated.

I fully understand too earlier points raised about academic standards when the name 'university' is being widely bounded around and this has to be paramount. However, consider the modern Asian context for a moment. Many so called universities are appalling bad. Do the graduates get jobs easily after leaving these places? No. Why? Because those in the workplace know that the standards as so bad at these institutions that any new worker will require much more training (a time and monetary cost).

The entire debate is extremely complicated but there is little need to discriminate so readily against any new institution offering what it labels a degree. I appreciate the fact that you have invested time and money in your education, are proud and defensive of it, but that doesn't necessarily give you, or me, the right to put ourselves on a pedestal simply because we have sat in a classroom and others will not in their own process of education. Education is elitist enough without perpetuating it further particularly against those who should not be marginalised from it, i.e. those who maybe didn't have the opportunity to have college or university education before. If online education embraces these people, recognises their abilities other than by straight academic grades, and assists them in form professional form or other then it says something, doesn't it?

[Scott Sommers]

Ian, this is a great contribution to the debate. I hope I can do justice to your comment.

Employers can take in to account any qualification that they want. And, in fact, they do. Employers regularly grant merit to degrees earned at distance or by other unconventional methods that public sector and academic employers do not consider.

The problem with unaccredited qualifications and those like Rochville that are accredited by dubious organizations is a little different. These degrees do not exist just to award qualification for merit earned outside a school or to decorate the offices of those so lazy they would rather buy a diploma than make it themselves with Photoshop. The granting of bogus degrees is a business for those who are involved in it.

On places like Dave's ESL Cafe you can see there are huge numbers of people who are not clear at all how valuable these diplomas are. I have written some of these bogus degree granting institutes and been given incorrect information about the value of the diploma. Numerous people have written me asking me what I think of certain 'schools' or thanking me for warning them that the diploma was valueless.

Honestly, I know that you are a very sophisticated customer of post-secondary education. But should those with less knowledge and ability in this marketplace be left to the wolves?

Or that's how I see the problem.

[Laura]

Again I am asking where to go for a diploma that takes into consideration my "life experience" aka really hard work and ambition.

I am concerned because a university may be classified as so called accredited, but if the state of Ohio does not recognize this university as accreted by their standards, then I cannot take the test that certifies me as a LSW.

I have tried to obtain information on what universities are accredited or accepted in the states standards. No luck in getting this information as of yet. Please an info would be most helpful.

Laura

[Ian]

Scott,

You raise some very interesting points and I thank you for your comments to my contribution. Referring to what you wrote I would have to agree that we have to empower ourselves through research before we apply ourselves to any possible course. This doesn't have to be a complex matter but must include answers to questions such as "What reputation does the University/College have?" "Who will teach me?" "What will I really learn and how can this benefit me?" "Will the cost of undertaking a course be worth it?" It might even be worth asking "Who runs the University/College and what is their background?" Therefore I, and you, would encourage anyone thinking of undertaking any kind of study to obtain as much information as possible before giving any written committment to an institution. Although this is no fool-proof guarantee to not get ripped off it certainly lessens the chances. We can only help ourselves by doing a little research and having a little self-responsibility. It never hurts anyone, particuly ourselves.

To go back to the wider debate, the whole issue of accredition and university naming is extremely boggy and unless some stringent measures are introduced at a government approved level, for example, anyone can literally open a school and put the name university to it. Of course this puts a political context to the already complicated situation. However, the issue is also one of culture, in part due to historical traditions of universities being known as the pinnacle of schooling. Many people still hold images that all universities have some form of academic excellence attached to them. From my own perspective I see the entire concept of academic excellence as one that can be moulded and manipulated to suit the marketing policy of any school or college. While basically every educational place says it promotes academic excellence we must ask: "Excellence over what? Where is the bottom common denominator? What is excellence judged by and by whom?" Again, we have to help ourselves and consider these answers for ourselves.

I am sorry to say that there is a huge naivity today based on people's cultural perceptions of what a modern university is. Just as the world has changed, so have universities. The university domain is extremely diverse, large and broad - broad in terms of greatly differing standards. If we all understand these basic facts then again we can help ourselves to not get ripped off.

[myself]

The question about RU is very simple. THEY ARE A BOGUS UNIVERSITY, they have the same rights to grant degrees like you, you can print by yourself and safe the money, both will have exactly the same value. They are not an university, simply they are a web page. They are printing diplomas on Hemiratian Arabes, no adrees, no office, no names. I am agree that if you need a marketability and if you are a REAL PROFESSIONAL you can go to Concordia College & University, they are not bogus, they are LEGAL acredited by 3 governments, may be some one can tell you that they are unusfull in USA, there is some credential evaluators that will give it to you a report like a equivalent to a USA RA degree, and they are internationalty legal. You can tray also with some french instituions that grant degrees based on the VAE law of the french government. In France is legal to obtain a degree based on life experience after passing a jury examinations of your credentials. Bon jour.

[muslimah]

actually i donot know how to thank all of u , i was about enrolling at a university which provide diplomas mill , even though i would like to know which universities can one deal with them safely ,specially those proiding degrees based on researches or intensive examinations ...here in egypt all of our universities provide thier degrees based on intensive years of researches ...anybody know an online university award its degree based on this (but not a diploma mill),
thanks very much again

[Jorge]

Is Almeda College & University a real "U"?

[Johnny C]

when people say Rochville Univ. is not accredited, they mean by an accrediting agency recognized by the United States Department of Education. Those agencies you listed, "Rochville University is accredited by both the Board of Online Universities Accreditation (BOUA) and the Universal Council for Online Education Accreditation (UCOEA)." They are NOT recognized by the United States Dept of Education.

[Johnny C.]

Do you want to know what schools are accredited in the United States go to the US Dept of Education website:

http://www.ed.gov/admins/finaid/accred/index.html

[THANH]

Hi! Could someone please tell me if this is true or not? Rochville claims that it can verify information like transcripts and all. I mean if you went to go and apply for a job and they ask for your information. If you have everything in handy like verification letters and everything that you needed and also Rochville claims that they can send or fax information of your transcripts if necessarily. I mean is it possible that it's true base on what they're saying about information verification and information containing your transcripts and grades? Please respond.
Thankyou!
Thanh